Grundfeld Gürtel

Moderatoren: Hans T., Nils B., Turms Kreutzfeldt, Chris

Grundfeld Gürtel

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 18.07.2010 19:35

Gutentag,

...I have uploaded some material on the 'Urnenfeldzeit' Grundfeld (grave 165) costume elements, and have a few important questions I hope this forum can help answer:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6264 ... struct.jpg

Section A has been scanned from "Das Archaologische Jahr in Bayern 2005", and shows the remnants of a sash, a close-up photograph of a detail plus two schematic drawings, and what appears to be a reconstruction.

Section B shows (sketches for) my own reconstruction drawings based on this article.... but they are working from a lot that I believe is probably wrong.

I have reason to believe the reconstruction drawing in A is not a very good one. Because if you look at Johanna's likely very well researched reconstruction in section C, there are too many differences: she HAS thought about how to tie the sash, she shows the (probable) leather backing needed to attach the bronze buttons, and most notable, has given the sash much longer fringes...

My questions, therefore, are:

- Who understands- and can explain to me- the schematic drawings? Where do these details belong on the sash?
- How long were the fringes really?


Danke schön!


Kelvin Wilson
Kelvin Wilson
 
Beiträge: 93
Registriert: 22.02.2006 11:23
Wohnort: Ridderkerk, NL

Beitragvon Fridolin » 19.07.2010 18:27

Kelvin,

Du hast Post.

Viele Grüße

Fridolin
Benutzeravatar
Fridolin
 
Beiträge: 1127
Registriert: 05.12.2005 19:11
Wohnort: Franconia

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 20.07.2010 08:31

Kelvin,
I will have look into the "Archäologisches Jahr in Bayern". Maybe I´ll see some more details on their sketch.

Our Museum´s UK-Lady wears a belt inspired by Grundfeld, too.
The Bronze buttons are simply sawn to the belt, no leather backing. It works well. The belt, or better, the sash, is simply knotted on her right hip. It works too.

Let me have another look in the book.
Till later...

Thomas
Tutenchamun was Nofretete ?
Benutzeravatar
Thomas Trauner
 
Beiträge: 1134
Registriert: 05.12.2005 16:38
Wohnort: Nürnberg

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 20.07.2010 11:34

Hi Thomas,

When I received the book in the mail last week, I was slightly startled... I'd seen it all before! Apparently I had forgotten that someone, I believe it might have even been you, had sent me copies before.... d-oh ;-)

Anyway, thank you for having another look at it. The doll in your museum, why does it have the knot on the side? Based on evidence, or ease?


Thank you very much,


Kelvin
Kelvin Wilson
 
Beiträge: 93
Registriert: 22.02.2006 11:23
Wohnort: Ridderkerk, NL

Beitragvon Hans T. » 20.07.2010 21:13

Kelvin, we don't know the position of the phalarae for sure, as the excavation was made early in the 20th century. But there is a possibility that their position was fairly close together, so that there was no real room for a knot in the middle of the waist band. Therefore we decided to make the knot on the side. Educated guesswork, if you like.

H.
"Des is wia bei jeda Wissenschaft, am Schluß stellt sich dann heraus, daß alles ganz anders war."
Benutzeravatar
Hans T.
Site Admin
 
Beiträge: 1634
Registriert: 05.12.2005 23:31
Wohnort: Nürnberg

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 20.07.2010 21:24

..ehm, I don't think we are talking about the same item: the Grundfeld sash was excavated in the 2002-2003 season!

At closer examination of the photograph of the 'Originalbefund' (see my link, above), I see the middle disc is positioned over the 'knot'... ie, exactly like Johanna Kuffner-Winklhofer reconstructed it.


Thanks,


Kelvin
Kelvin Wilson
 
Beiträge: 93
Registriert: 22.02.2006 11:23
Wohnort: Ridderkerk, NL

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 21.07.2010 08:22

Kelvin,

a slight misunterstanding. The mannequin in our museum is from a find in Weißkirchen, east of Nuremberg, dug up early in the 20th cent.

But we based the sash on the Grundfeld design. As "our" phalarea are rather close together we bound the sash at the hip.
As Hans said, educated guess work.

Johanna´s design looks convincing, too.

Thomas
PS. I think you´re right, I remember making copies for you.... :-)
Tutenchamun was Nofretete ?
Benutzeravatar
Thomas Trauner
 
Beiträge: 1134
Registriert: 05.12.2005 16:38
Wohnort: Nürnberg

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 21.07.2010 09:23

"As "our" phalarea are rather close together..."

...I was wondering about that! A woman with a slim waist. Nine large phalarea. They must have hung close together, closer than on my first sketch.

I am interested in the Weisskirchen finds now ;-)


Kelvin
Kelvin Wilson
 
Beiträge: 93
Registriert: 22.02.2006 11:23
Wohnort: Ridderkerk, NL

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 21.07.2010 10:23

Just two of it. Diameter roughly 12 cm. Space between roughly as wide as a hand.
Found in the height of the hips. No hook or something for closing a belt. Therefore our idea of a sash á la Grundfeld....

The only human remains where a part of her skull, part of the calotte. Luckely including the fondanelles, therefore we know it was a young woman. Her height was abound 160-165 cm.

Thomas
Tutenchamun was Nofretete ?
Benutzeravatar
Thomas Trauner
 
Beiträge: 1134
Registriert: 05.12.2005 16:38
Wohnort: Nürnberg


Zurück zu Urnenfelderkultur

Wer ist online?

Mitglieder in diesem Forum: 0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast